(Update 8 p.m. — Adds comments by Cal Lee.)
Response to the news that the change to the state football tournament format — to take effect immediately — was slow this afternoon.
A Star-Advertiser breaking news story shared the announcement by the Hawaii High School Athletic Association that the state tournament format would be altered as soon as this season. Open Division would be comprised of four OIA teams and two ILH squads. There would still be Division I and II tourneys with eight teams in each.
One coach who was available for comment on a busy Monday afternoon was Kapolei’s Darren Hernandez, whose team didn’t start practice until late afternoon. He has been a head coach or assistant coach for more than two decades, and was both perplexed and enthused by the news.
“This is crazy, but crazy good. I support this all the way and you can quote me on that,” he said. “My biggest concern is how short the seasons are. They’re ridiculously short. When I started coaching, the championship game was in the first week of December. I’m hoping the HHSAA will take this into account and make the season longer.”
“I love basketball and other sports, but football is king. Football is the cash cow. You’d think the leagues would want more games. How many basketball players (from Hawaii) made it to the NBA? How many sports can draw 30,000 fans to one game,” Hernandez added.
Saint Louis coach Cal Lee was intrigued by the news.
“I’m surprised and happy that we have a state tournament where we have the top teams playing for the state championship. Four OIA, two ILH, every game is going to be a sellout. The state tournament will have a great game in every game,” said Lee, whose Crusaders are among the title contenders again this season. “Well, we been trying to get two ILH teams in for a long time. Finally. It’s only fair for the kids. The top teams, don’t you want your best teams to be in there? This way, it’s fair.”
“It helps everybody. I don’t care about all the other stuff. I think about the kids,” he said. “That’s why we’re here to coach and I think this is great we can help them play at this level. And I believe the OIA coaches feel the same way, too.”
A multitude of blowout games is a key factor why the ILH went to exclusive league schedules in recent years. In the OIA, however, many Division I games in the first two weeks have been runaways.
“The OIA, as a coach, I don’t know who they are, but they’ve got to understand, football you’ve got to have a vision,” Lee said. “Can’t have it the same way. Football is going down, down, down. Have you seen some of the scores? Why would you have a kid getting beat up, mercy rule, no competition?”
The state tourneys for smaller programs are ideal, Lee said.
“I think if the kids win any division,” he said, “don’t they feel good about themselves, that they won something?”
What is this guy smoking…FAIR? Stop recruiting the elite talent out of Waianae, Kahuku, Kalihi and then lets talk about playing fair. The OIA is just a doormat for ILH elitist to further their reputations as PREMIUM institutions.
anywaaays, you are so correct. It’s Call Lee himself who ruined the competitive balance of Hawaii state football with his excessive all-out recruiting starting in the early 1980s. Who is he then to bring up the blowouts? I came of age in the 1970s. I’m telling you, back then the ILH never recruited more than 1 bonafide Pac-12 player a year. Which evened things out with the OIA teams. St Louis forced other ILH schools to also recruit heavily if they wanted a competitive football team. St Francis too. Which has gutted the rosters of schools like McKInley, Kaimuki and Roosevelt. I am friends with a consensus St Louis 1st team ILH All-Star from the 1970s. He tells me Cal Lee is the one behind all the recruiting. That it is he who directs St Louis scouts to the different playgrounds to scout promising young players. I remember the terrific balance there was in the 1970s. No need for different classifications back then.
And when the ILH start filling up the rosters with recruits and win the next 15 state titles what will they do to even out the playing field??? Somebody got paid!!!!
Lee is a bunch of BULL…You want to be the elite…PLAY THE TOP 4 OIA EACH YEAR WITH PLAYERS FROM YOUR OWN TOWN… AND THEN WE’LL SEE HOW MANY ILH TEAMS SHOULD REALLY BE IN THE STATE TOURNAMENT… WEAK….
Totally agree with Coach Hernandez….. more games, we had regular season games in California, not saying we need that much though. Maybe add another game but start the season later.
Hernandez is Happy because the homemade Koa trophy he made to award his team in a rivalry game against Waianae went home with the seariders. Now Waianae and the rest of the big dogs are going to play in the Open division so Kapolei has a chance to win a real Koa trophy in the D1 division. LOL, and Kapolei has one of the biggest enrollments on the island, by terms of enrollment they should be competing in the highest division.
Quit hating on Lee…. don’t blame the ILH… brah, blame your community school. If your school had better sports programs AND academics… i bet the kids wouldn’t be leaving to places like St. Louis or Punahou or Kamehameha. Fix your community school and stop blaming others. Maybe the community schools need to find better financial backing from the community. If the ILH schools were crappier than the community school… your kids wouldn’t be leaving. As i mentioned, no blame the ILH schools if they figured out a way to get mo money which allows them the opportunity to bring kids in. Sick and tired of hearing all the excuses. Bottom line… go get more money for your community school! If no can, no grumble!
@j…. That’s why your called private school. Funding can come from anywhere to whoever they want… don’t happen like that in public school. You “mention” all you want, but you can’t tell us how to think and comment. Especially when your comment makes no sense. If you want we can debate your logic, this one’s is too easy. OIA>ILH….
What boils down is this, The State Tournament benefits the kids, but I’m not a synic so it also benefits HHSAA with more games and much bigger revenue.
The Open division is legit with 4 OIA and 2 ILH. Let’s be for real, it should have been 2 ILH teams all along. Maui and BI can’t compete and that’s a fact. 3 Tier programs will literally have parents wanting for their kids to play in their home districts, because more chance for exposure. Second, lets talk Recruiting. ILH has benefitted from grabbing housing and rural kids to play for them, however let’s not forget that those players continued to play at the next level due to influence from those schools as well as relationships those coaches cultivated.
However, MIL, KAHUKU, WAIA, or maybe KAP has close the distance because of New and more experienced Coaches. Hernandez is sending kids to college, Vae is sending kids to college, Randall and York are all sending kids to college. Ultimately is the reason why the Maafalas, Te’os, Arcenaux’s, Alualu’s send their boys to PUN or STL. Now we have guys staying home because of those coaches..SolJay at Kahuku, Taulia at Kapolei, Rosario at Waianae, Challen at Farrington and so on.
Some of you keep harping about what STL did in the 90’s yet last time I checked the Kahuku is taking names and kicking the ILH ass…
So again, my point is GREAT FOR THE KIDS!!!
Great points BigSarge but other then Kahuku no OIA team will win a title having to go through PUN and STL. How does that benefit those OIA kids? It sure does benefit PUN and STL kids to consistently be in the semi-finals and possibly an all ILH final every year. Imagine all that exposure that the ILH can now use as bait to reel in more elite talent and the rich get richer.
We are not arguing the opportunity’s and resource the ILH offers our kids and their futures, we are arguing a tournament, specifically the Open division that is fair with some balance, the 3 tier system is awesome, but in the Open division why cant it be 4 OIA, 1 ILH, 1 MIL? thats fair.
Kids are not staying home because of coaching, they are finding schools where they can start and get playing time.
Great points BiggSarge…
Isn’t the reason for all that we do because we want the best for our kids? This new State tournament format isn’t necessarily the best but it is a step in the right direction……it allows the best in the state to compete against each other while allowing all other schools a chance to compete in divisions that are somewhat even and competitive. Hey, folks don’t get hung up on who “recruits” and who doesn’t….yes, ILH recruits…who wouldn’t when they got to play the likes of each other at least twice each year. But, OIA uses “district exceptions” to get kids moved from one area to another.
So as the kids would say….”chill” and let’s see how this works out. Maybe next year the leagues can take another step to improve the process even further.
@anyways, your last point agreed…Pearl City QB transferred from KAM to play at PC. Numerous Laie kids transferred out of Punahou and STL to play for Kahuku. Gabriel, Vavae, And more transferred out of STL to play for MIL.
What I meant for more exposure is what Hernandez said, more games and ability to say they played in States. I root for Hawaii kids to get that exposure. Even though we have HUDL, YouTube, we are still 2000 miles away from mainland. I hate the concept of “everyone gets a trophy” but in this case I truly believe that this system benefit the kids but it also benefits the HHSAA coffers..
I am pretty excited for this format. Yes you are right not every OIA program will be able to compete with the big 3 ILH schools on a yearly basis. Hopefully each year there will be at least 2 or 3 teams that will be able to compete with the ILH, so far this year it is looking like Kahuku, Waianae, and Farrington. It is unfortunate to see the ridiculous amount of recruiting and talent that ends up going to PUN or STL. I do think each of these games will be highly competitive though.
I know it is against the competitive nature of the game, but I am curious to see if a borderline OIA team (4, 5, 6) may sabotage their game plan so that they can compete in the D1 tournament rather than the Open division.
Then besides these 6 schools, I do think it makes the matchups and games in the new D1 division more competitive as well. The MIL and BIF teams are probably better suited to matchup against the 2nd tier of OIA schools and Iolani. Then on the D2 division, I know they did this already, but I do like that Iolani can’t compete at this level and they allow these schools to compete against other schools of similar skill.
The ILH is in for a rude awakening and they will find out real quick just how “normal” the ILH really is.
@BiggSarge – Tata isn’t doing anything different then what was already done before he came. Sending kids to college? If I remember we had 7 state titles before he came, and sending kids to college was a yearly event whether they were State Champions or not.
Why are people complaining about recruiting? If private schools were only to recruit in their own areas, there would be no public schools in that area. I’m all for recruiting, but when you’re recruiting to line up a team of 60+ players, it makes no sense when many of those players won’t play and could have easily had playing time at other schools. Put a cap on amount of players on the team. The rest that don’t make it can go back to play for their schools.
ILH recruiting allow them to stack all 11 positions on offense and 11 on defense, its practically an all-star team, The OIA closing the gap only means that two or three kids on both sides of the ball are all-star worthy but the rest of their teammates are just casual players (some playing football for the first time). I bet the end of year all-star list for the open division will have 90% of its selection from St. Louis and Punahou, how does that benefit the OIA kids in getting exposure? It doesnt.
I went public school but if I had a chance to go private I would take it! You guys are missing the point! Yea they are getting the cream of the crop players in the state but they also have the cream of the crop facilities and education! You guys are so lost and about just the sport but forgetting about their future! What if football don’t get them their atleast u can fall back on education! Public schools can only do so much and the teachers don’t really give a s@$& because of the horrible pay they get! It’s almost like saying you rather send your son to Hawaii and not USC because USC gets all the top players and have better facilities and they are in the pac12 and have more money so it’s not fair! Bs…..I’m sure u will be sending them to USC!!!! So stop crying and tell the parents who send their kids to the private schools to send them to public!!! And see what they say!!!! Play4$notBraggingRights
We’re never going to get away from private schools recruiting talent; it is what it is. What I can’t stand is when public schools recruit from other private schools. I know this is a sensitive issue because families do sometimes move into different districts, or mabe the family situation is such that a kid has to move. Is it difficult to prove “recruiting” happens between public schools; yes; but when you have multiple transfers from various places(as happened a couple of season ago), then something looks fishy.
But as far as the new format, I like it. Similar to what they do in California. I know in the California system, there are always unhappy teams cause many feel like they should be in the Open Division, but have to settle for D1.
Looking forward to how it plays out.
RRFL
J your statement is appalling and ignorant, one thing your comment proves is that you have no clue of what is going on in communities around the state. For you to put the blame on communities is ludicrous and absurd. All PUBLIC SCHOOLS are operated by the state not the community. In many communities it is a struggle just to have additional programs due to state funding. The caveat between the ILH and OIA is tuition, $15K – $20K a year can do a lot of good for a school, if you want to see how bad a kid wants to go to a private school have them pay their own way……I dont have anything against private schools but they should be better when they have the private funds that a public school is not able to attain. And before you make a statement, most of the community funds are not earmarked for athletic purposes. To make it short before you make statements like that please do your research.
@J
If the local schools had the money the ILH has then they would be able to keep their kids at their school. Try tell any good athlete to come to your ILH school with no scholarship or financial aid and see how many of them show up (NONE). The ILH will always have an advantage because of money/academics (DUH) but the best part is even with ALL the ILH recruiting, Kahuku is still dominating. Cal Lee is “overated” with all the recruiting talent he had during his title run almost any coach would have won too…If he was that great he would have won a championship at Kalani when he was there but couldn’t so he ran back to STL!
Two ILH teams make it to the finals, this format is OVER.
3 Tier playoff should be a good money maker… don’t matter if 2 ILH teams make it, it gives more schools a chance with 3 divisions…
Well we Now know where the $3 Million went….. HHSAA…. No need give um to the OIA….Probably spent $1 mil instead….That’s a way better deal than spending $3 mil and giving it to the OIA….jmo
I like it! Put a super conference together and see wat happens !RRFL
We should play season games with the 3 ilh as well so we can hit them more than one game. It will be fun to see the pass happy ilh get roughed up by the run happy threescore of Kahuku, Farrington and Watanabe. Good luck to all and see you guys in the stadium. Here comes the sea of RED.
All you OIA folks liking this format are short sighted. This is what is going to happen. MORE OIA KIDS will end up at St Louis and Punahou. Why? Because the stud kids in the D1 and D2 division will want to compete in the Open Division. The easiest way to do that will be via transfers to a private schools. Hell, they will enroll earlier straight out of 8th grade to avoid any transfer restrictions. But, no worry OIA will just change the rules again. Side note: you need to stop complaining about recruiting OIA Recruits too! Neighbor island kids are at Kahuku, Kaiser, Kapolei. If kids are taking care of the grades, let them play where they want.
Public schools have a hard time competing with private schools. Public school are limited to the district they serve while private schools can draw statewide with an incentive of having strong academic and social benefits. DeBuckner should have played at Waianae. Teo should have played for Kahuku. Both played at Punahou. Compare coaches salaries and qualifications. Compare facilities. Look at parental support. Most OIA schools can’t compare.
Sorry Iolani you will miss the playoffs for the 1st time in years, Kamehameha is the big winner in this format…
Aku, Kam will miss the playoffs because Iolani will drop down their classification so they can compete in the D1 division. The ILH big 3 are competing for the 2 spots in the open division. Iolani is guaranteed a playoff birth because they dont fit into the open div or the D2, you can kind of guess that this 3 tier was created to benefit all the ILH teams.
What do you mean Darren Hernadez that other sports not important and basketball don’t have quility players going off to college . I tell you why that is because everything now days is football year round starting at a young age and any other sport don’t have a chance to develop good players . That’s all I have to say about his comment.
Cal Lee aint overrated thats for damn sure! He pretty much paved the way for any exposure coming to this island be grateful. He mentored alot of coaches thriving right now.
I’m glad people see the bigger picture and how this benefits everyone. Top tier competition in the open division just the way it should be showcasing the best teams in the state, and the appropriate talent level teams in the Division 1 and Division 2 tournaments. All other states do it this way, Hawaii is way behind on the learning curve.
For those complaining about ILH recruiting, OIA does it as well, and if I recall correctly who won the last two state championships and who did they beat? Also were all of their kids from their respective communities? I highly doubt it. My daughter plays volleyball and how many of the kids that play for a certain OIA school are from out of district? It’s time to give up the recruiting excuse because every school does it.
I also see more and more kids transferring OUT of private schools and going back to their communities to go to school, and for those that decide to go to private schools that is their choice. Why should it concern you where these kids go? If the families think it’s worth it to go to private school then that’s their business.
Times are changing and people need to let go of their pride and support the ones who benefit from it; the kids.
@ Givemeurbbds
I never said he wasn’t a good coach, I said overrated!
Give Tokuda, York, Say, Tata teams with players like Alualu, Malepeai, Matzuzaki, Chang, Ornellas, Arcenaux, Ma’afala, Tata, Nua, etc… basically all (All State) talent on the same team year after year and they would win 10 in a row too!!
Talent wins games and Cal Lee was recruiting talent in the 80s/90s when no one else did, He also held kids back so they were 19yr old playing for St. Louis. He cant win when the playing field is even, look at last year he had June Jones mentoring the #1 QB in the nation in Tua but still got out coached by Vae Tata.
Cal is OVERRATED and cant win on an even playing field. He has the St. Louis alumni hypnotized into believing he is their savior!
I think u forgot where vae came from. Do your research brotherhood for life!
For the record, you ever thought that parents pushed to send their sons to go there and made sacrifices because there community school had no opportunities. Easy to talk when u come from the outside. My dad sold his family prize possessions and worked 16 hour shifts to send me there and play football because as a kid that is what i love to do. Talk about the format being unfair dont bad talk one of the founders of hawaii prep football exposure. Overrated is the wrong word to use. Cal wasnt fishing kids out parents were coming to him. Get real and no your facts u small minded dummies!
U seemed to forget that he was the gateway to college recruiting not only for st. Louis also other schools. College recruiters first stop in hawaii is St.Louis back in the 90’s. Who do u think the college recruiter asked who else on the island should we see and he woulld lead them to other schools like kahuku waianae etc. Ask anyone who went to st. Louis and theyll tell u the reason we won all those championships. Its because the coaching was superior than anyother school in the state. It wasnt talent because i can vouch couple of years kamehameha had way more talent and size than us but couldn’t put it together because of the coaching. U can thank cal for coaching being better because coaches now our duplicating his system york/ tata. The last two winners.
Kahuku coaching staff head coach, OC and DC st. Louis alumni boom! And we proud for those braddas! Brotherhood for life
why are we still talking about football in the 90s prep bowl era. this is 2016. Those days are long gone as you can tell by the state titles st. louis won over the last 10 years. i think their last state title was ummmmmm 2010.
One thing I seem to notice,theirs a bunch of us RR fans on here,I know it’s football season but get of your phones/computers and get back to work,lol.Me included
St Louis went to coach Kahuku because the principal knew there wasn’t anyone capable or smart enough to coach all that talent. 19 year old kids at St Louis and Punahou???? Sol Jay Maiava is not a freshman. He is already 15 and when he graduates he will doing his dance with his graduating class at 19 years old. Oh yeah just like Kesi Ahoy too so don’t talk about 19 year old kids. Face the facts that all Kahuku has is pride from the north shore. Anything like a college degree is not important. So while you continue to have pride in the big red other student athletes are getting academic scholarships. CAL Lee overrated??? Winning high school championship is overrated!!! Go to school so you can get a real job!
Many of you guys are ridiculous. No town or area owns kids. Recruiting is part of the process of anything whether it’s academics, work, or athletics. Why do you think these families and kids choose certain private schools? They offer a better product.
So for NCAA we should use the crybaby model suggested by many up above. You should have to play with kids in your own state or city. That is absolutely the dumbest thing I have ever heard.
Alabama wins because Saban recruits the best. If you want to win you either need to recruit better or get hired by a school that offers a great product to be able to recruit.
All of you who cry do it so transparently. You are jealous since no one wanted your kid. No school wanted to invest $20,000+ on your kids. And now you are stuck at a mediocre school offering less than mediocre academics and your kid will probably have a mediocre life making less than menial wages.
There are many public schools on the mainland who can attract top athletes. Why? They have a great product. And please @Alpha, can you have your parents help you write. I have a headache trying to figure out if you are actually writing in English. I cannot tell.
Givemeurbbds you were sheeetty! thats why you had to pay to play at St. Louis, All of my childhood friends I grew up with that were gifted atheletes got free rides and some half tuition to St. Louis. Its easy to coach passing plays when you recruit the quickest receivers in the state and recruit the biggest strongest linemen to block. All these recruits did not attend Private schools from Kindergarten so they are not products of that school nor could they afford it. So Cal Lee used loop holes to get these elite recruits to his school right before high school strictly to play football.
Do you guys understand operating costs? Yes kids get financial aid. There are monies that can be allocated for football. But if you think Punahou is giving 60 football scholarships instead of trying to collect up to $1,260,000 just to win some football games then you people are crazy.
Yes there are some kids who are brought it for football. But to think the number is anywhere near the neighborhood of 60 kids is asinine. The goal of a private school is to generate money, not win football games.
EducationFirst you are missing the point. OIA schools do not have the resources to recruit so they rely strictly on the talent that is in their area. Private schools can recruit all they want and send all those kids to college which is great. But as far as competition the playing field is not even. Now that the ILH has not won any titles they are the ones crying saying that its unfair to them. Yet they are the ones with the silver spoon in their mouth. OIA and ILH are two different animals and need to be seperated not joined.
Vierra Ohana August 23, 2016 at 7:33 am
J your statement is appalling and ignorant, one thing your comment proves is that you have no clue of what is going on in communities around the state. For you to put the blame on communities is ludicrous and absurd. All PUBLIC SCHOOLS are operated by the state not the community. In many communities it is a struggle just to have additional programs due to state funding. The caveat between the ILH and OIA is tuition, $15K – $20K a year can do a lot of good for a school, if you want to see how bad a kid wants to go to a private school have them pay their own way……I dont have anything against private schools but they should be better when they have the private funds that a public school is not able to attain. And before you make a statement, most of the community funds are not earmarked for athletic purposes. To make it short before you make statements like that please do your research.
Do you have any research? Yes the private schools charge more to attend. But, that budget also has to account for salaries, facility upgrades and maintenance, athletics, music, art, clubs, etc.
The DOE uses the weighted students formula that gives each school a little more than $4000 for ever students still enrolled at a certain time at the beginning of the school year.
That money is not used for teacher salaries, facilities, clubs, sports, etc. There are additional monies.
Now I am not saying the public schools have more money than some private schools, but they have more money to use than people think.
And if a school is poor it’s definitely part of the community’s fault. Allowing your children to get poor test scores, inability to donate time to help raise monies, lack of donation money is all a reflection on the community.
That’s a weak excuse to say that a community isn’t part of the solution for public schools. Each school has a School-Community-Student Group that looks to build partnerships with communities through after school program, community events, donations, etc.
It’s that small minded visions that cripple the kids. If the community isn’t part of the problem, I guess you are saying it’s the Department of Education’s fault and/or the politicians. But yet you still want your child to go to a broken system?
Kind of sounds hypocritical to me.
anywaaaays!! August 23, 2016 at 12:27 pm
EducationFirst you are missing the point. OIA schools do not have the resources to recruit so they rely strictly on the talent that is in their area. Private schools can recruit all they want and send all those kids to college which is great. But as far as competition the playing field is not even. Now that the ILH has not won any titles they are the ones crying saying that its unfair to them. Yet they are the ones with the silver spoon in their mouth. OIA and ILH are two different animals and need to be seperated not joined.
@anywaayyysss, please explain to me how public schools get great athletes on the mainland? I am guessing only Hawaii Public Schools do not have money? And if they do not have the same resources, how about either finding some?
And don’t be so salty that the private school have the money they do. They had to work hard to gt the kind of image and system in place that they currently have. They didn’t always start with a lot of money. They just knew who to do with money when they actually got it.
Hahaha anyways exactly all your childhood friends except u. U turkey!! Haha coudnt cut it should be your name anyways lol i got two rings and not from riding the pine. Haha u wasnt even good enough to ride the pine at st. Louis fakn joke. I got game tape of it too come uncles house show u what one real athlete look like fact!!